Jeff Williams:
Welcome to Community Voices, a production of NPR Illinois. I'm your co-host, Jeff Williams. In the studio with me today, I have Dr. Melissa Fisher Paoni, co-owner of Springfield Psychological Center. Melissa, how's it going?
Melissa Fisher Paoni:
All right, how's it going, Jeff?
Jeff Williams:
It's going okay. I'm flubbing everything up here, which is really nice. Also in the studio, Dr. Michael Trieger, co-founder …of the very same Springfield Psychological Center. Thank you both for coming in.
Melissa Fisher Paoni:
Thanks for having us.
Michael Trieger:
Thanks.
Jeff Williams:
Okay, well, I just thought that both of you could come in. I have a question that I'm going to ask later, but first off, I just thought each of you, if you want to give us a little bit of background about what you do.
Melissa Fisher Paoni:
Well, I can talk about the Springfield Psychological Center. We have about 10 clinicians. And we serve people from the age of two to 90. We do therapy and psychological evaluations. And my specialty area is evaluations of children and adolescents. And I do therapy as well.
Jeff Williams:
Very, very cool. And Michael?
Michael Trieger:
Some of the same work, a lot of overlap. I have some contractual work that I do for evaluations of veterans and people who are disabled. Right, But I started out working with children and adolescents exclusively, and as I have gotten older, I have expanded the age range of my clients.
Jeff Williams:
Michael, are you retiring?
Michael Trieger:
I am retiring.
Jeff Williams:
Are you going to retire?
Michael Trieger:
In 2 weeks.
Jeff Williams:
In 2 weeks. Wow. We got you here right before! Congratulations on retirement! So how long have you been doing this then?
Michael Trieger:
41 years.
Jeff Williams:
When did you open the Springfield Psychological Center?
Michael Trieger:
That was 1992.
Jeff Williams:
Okay.
Michael Trieger:
For seven years before that, I was with the SIU School of Medicine.
Jeff Williams:
So, Melissa, you, how long have you been with the Springfield Psychological Center?
Melissa Fisher Paoni:
I always have to use my daughter's age as a way to tell time. Right. So, 23 years.
Jeff Williams:
Dr. Paoni, you're a licensed clinical psychologist and certified school psychologist, board certified by the National Association of School Psychologists, right? Okay. Dr. Trieger, you perform consultative psychological examinations for the Illinois Bureau of Disability Determinations.
Michael Trieger:
That's correct.
Jeff Williams:
That's correct. And you also, this is for the Department of Human Services. Is that all the same thing or is that okay? You also work with DCFS.
Michael Trieger:
I did in the past.
Jeff Williams:
In the past, okay. In Veterans Administration?
Michael Trieger:
Yes.
Jeff Williams:
Okay. Now here's the thing I want to ask both of you. Illinois certifications versus national certifications. Right now, seems like that's something that sort of with the climate of things, is it kind of difficult where you're matching up Illinois, National? I don't know, that might not even be, it might be smooth sailing. I just wanted to kind of ask both of you. about that. I don't know if that's a curveball.
Melissa Fisher Paoni:
We just practice in Illinois. Our license is good in Illinois. There's something called Psych Pack where you can get licensed in different states.
Jeff Williams:
It's pretty much.
Michael Trieger:
There are different licensure requirements by (any) state, and some states have reputations for being especially challenging in order to earn licensure. But maybe you were asking is the way we practice in Illinois, how does that compare to somebody practicing in Georgia, for example?
Jeff Williams:
I didn't know if you had, if somebody's from one state or another state, if you can't work with them anymore, if they move to a different state because they're now in a state where maybe some of the laws or what they have to go through is different than when they were in Illinois. Yeah, if not.
Melissa Fisher Paoni:
As long as our patients are in Illinois, we're good.
Michael Trieger:
If we have people who move away, but they want a recommendation or a suggestion about how to find the right kind of professional in their new community, there's sometimes a way of using national organizations to at least a certain level of credentialing to make sure that somebody is qualified.
Jeff Williams:
Recently, Melissa, you were down at Pride, correct? You had a booth at Pride Do you want to tell us a little bit about what that entailed and how that went?
Melissa Fisher Paoni:
I would love to. I was at the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention tent at Pride Fest. I look forward to this every year. There are so many people that come up to the table, have stories to share. I wrote some down on my phone when it was happening, but they're always just very grateful for us. They want to continue to share their experiences to help other people. Some of the things that I had written down was that someone came up and said, I had suicidal ideation and if it weren't for people like you, I wouldn't be here. So, it's like, Don, that made my day right there. Suicidal ideation has crossed the mind of someone else in the past and They are taking the materials to their car because they want to have them handy if a friend needs them. And I have some for you, Jeff. I've got packets. This one's in Spanish.
Jeff Williams:
I can give that to my brother.
Melissa Fisher Paoni:
Okay, do it. And then one is specific to LGBTQIA+ because it has information about the Trevor Project and other wonderful organizations. These cards are great. They have the 988 information and also there's some people who really don't want to talk to people but they will text and so there's the text number which is 741741. This has great information for anyone who might be in a crisis and just needs to talk to somebody. I also talked to a man who he said I'm just here because my child came out as bisexual and I don't know what to do and I just want to support them. So, we have all kinds of individuals looking for help and also others that were in the past going through a crisis and they want to help. And so they're asking me how can I volunteer? How can I sign up? And so that was great.
Jeff Williams:
Right on. That's very, very good. This is not This is kind of different, but it's sort of, to me at least, is sort of the same. Not exactly the same, but different times over the course of our band playing, there's been a few people who have come up to me and they've said, your music has helped me through some times where I didn't know if I wanted to go on, And each time when somebody say that, when I think about it later, I mean, I just about start crying because it's just something that thank you for helping, basically, for helping my uncle, committed suicide and my mom's brother, and it's just something that if people feel they need to reach out or talk to people, Or like you said, even if it's where somebody doesn't maybe want to talk, but even like texting or something like that, where it can still keep a person, they can engage in that, but not feel outside of what initially is the comfort zone for them, after they text, then maybe they do want to talk.
Melissa Fisher Paoni:
Well, there's always somebody to listen, and that's a very important factor in managing suicidal ideation.
Jeff Williams:
Yeah, definitely. Man, oh man. So, you were down there at, through the course of the day. So it went, I was in (the studio) working, I was doing editing and I thought, okay, cool, it's raining right now, but I'll just get some stuff done and then I'll head. And the next thing I knew, it was after, it was like later in the day. Then it got sunny though. but it was like after 6:00, so I went by kind of later. You touched on it a little bit, but so it was pretty good. I didn't get down there through the course of the day until later.
Melissa Fisher Paoni:
I was there from 11am to 2:30pm when it was raining pretty steadily and it didn't keep people away.
Jeff Williams:
That's awesome. Yeah.
Michael Trieger:
And it feels what Melissa said.
Jeff Williams:
Absolutely.
Michael Trieger:
And it's not my intention to get political or, but societally speaking, it felt like we were making some headway with making people feel included in our society. And sadly, I think we've taken some big steps backwards. And so I think we need PrideFest and we need people helping because there's a lot of people who still are struggling to be comfortable with themselves and then to let other people know who they are.
Jeff Williams:
Absolutely. And Will, the thing is where maybe if it's not the direct intention of some people who just like, people feel different ways about things, but even if you feel strongly about stances in the political realm, you have to consider people that loved ones, that maybe feel a little bit different than you do and try to have some empathy for that because a lot of people are affected right now by things that is not maybe positive for mental health, for how people feel and navigate day-to-day. I mean, I feel that and I don't have, I have some, but not some of the roadblocks that other people have and it's just be nice if everybody could kind of consider that for other people, friends, relatives, even if they think they don't know somebody directly, indirectly they do and to consider the feelings of other people, but I mean, I get it, everybody's different. So anyway, sorry. I don't know if necessarily I had some other point than that. Michael, as far as retirement goes?
Michael Trieger:
Well, I have a lot of interests, so I'm really not concerned that I will not have enough to do and think about. I'm going to continue doing a little bit of work with some of the contractual things I'm doing. But I was reflecting over the course of my career and had a conversation with someone recently and they said, had it not been for you, we wouldn't be here. And I'm always a little embarrassed by that because I don't, maybe it's accepting compliments has never really been something I've been okay with. But we're in a business where I don't think very often that we hear about good outcomes. Every once in a while, you'll bump into someone and they'll express some appreciation. All I really ever wanted for my clients was that they wind up in a better place than when I met them.
Jeff Williams:
Absolutely. Oh yeah.
Michael Trieger:
And so, I take comfort in knowing that most of the time that happens, but I got to admit it's really nice every once in a while for somebody to say something very complimentary about your interaction with them.
Jeff Williams:
Right, well, thank you both for doing what you do because even if you don't maybe hear it from the person right away, like you're kind of, like you're sort of saying you help people a lot, you're touching people and helping people. Well, I know they tell you, but anyway.
Melissa Fisher Paoni:
Well, I just want to say, you know, with Dr. Trieger's retirement, there's been an enormous community of people that have been affected by him in a positive way and influenced by him. And they have I know that might be embarrassing, but you've seen grandkids of some of your patients. I mean, generations of people come back. So there's a reason for that. And I think that that's worthy of sharing that he definitely has had quite an impact on this community.
Jeff Williams:
Well, congratulations on a well-deserved retirement and staying connected with the community it sounds like. Are you going to stay in the area you think then?
Michael Trieger:
For a little while anyway, we will ultimately be moving, but probably not before the new year or close to the new year. And so in the meantime, there's some community things I'd like to get more involved in now that I'll have the time. Oh yeah, maybe helping out at the animal shelter and doing some.
Jeff Williams:
Right, very nice. Love it, love it. Okay, well, once again, we have Dr. Melissa Fisher Paoni and Dr. Michael Trieger, both from the Springfield Psychological Center. Anything else either of you would like to add?
Melissa Fisher Paoni:
I would just say everyone If you can give a kind word to someone, it's probably going to be more meaningful than you're ever going to be aware of.
Jeff Williams:
Ever aware, it is like that, where it's nice to just be kind to another person. And no matter what their response is, it doesn't have to be that they give you a good response back that makes it, oh, I feel good about that. Just the fact that you're able to do it, they might not be in a situation at the time where they understand or appreciate or whatever it is, but they'll, like you said, they might remember it.
Melissa Fisher Paoni:
And I remember one patient told me, and this was at like, I don't know, two or three in the afternoon, and I said, hey, how's it going? And sat down and he said, you're the first person to talk to me all day. So sometimes even just greeting people, saying something kind, makes a world of difference. And if everyone can do that, the world will be a better place.
Jeff Williams:
Absolutely.
Michael Trieger:
It's interesting in Judaism, there's the concept of charity has levels. And the first level is you see somebody that needs help, you help them.
Jeff Williams:
Right.
Michael Trieger:
But the greatest level of charity is where you don't know who you're helping and they don't know who provided the help. Right, Things just are better for them.
Jeff Williams:
Right on. Is that considered like Agape or is that something else?
Michael Trieger:
It's Sedaka.
Jeff Williams:
Sedaka, okay, right on. Right on. Well, once again in the studio, Dr. Melissa Fisher Paoni, Dr. Michael Trieager from the Springfield Psychological Center. Thank you both so much for coming in and talking to us today.
Michael Trieger:
Thanks for inviting us.
Melissa Fisher Paoni:
Peace.
Jeff Williams:
Right on. See what happens when I try to throw the Fisher. I try to throw the Fisher and I made a little note all of a sudden.
Melissa Fisher Paoni:
Jeff, I've known you for like 40 years! (laughing)
Jeff Williams:
I know, and I just, for some reason, I got nervous. It made You made me nervous here. I'll cut it. I'll cut it back. I'll cut it back. Community Voices is events you might have missed and conversations with neighbors, artists, and area businesspeople. Suggest a guest or comment at communityvoices@nprillinois.org. Get to know your neighbors with community voices at noon and 10 p.m. and on demand at nprillinois.org
Suicide Prevention Resource Dr Melissa Paoni and Dr Michael Trieger at Springfield Psychological Center
