Melissa Hostetter and Ashley Vincent Wait Until 8th helps parents navigate screen time for children

Jeff Williams:
Welcome to Community Voices, a production of NPR Illinois. I'm your co-host, Jeff Williams. In the studio with me today, Melissa Hostetter, is that correct?
Melissa Hostetter:
Yes.
Jeff Williams:
Okay. And Ashley Vincent, is that correct? Yes. You're right on. You were both here with Wait Until 8th. Yes. Okay. I'm really interested to hear about this.
Melissa Hostetter:
I can go ahead. So, we're both chapter leaders. I'm the chapter leader of Springfield. Ashley is (the chapter leader) of Chatham.
Jeff Williams:
Okay.
Melissa Hostetter:
And we just started this within the last couple of weeks.
Jeff Williams:
Oh, wow. Okay.
Melissa Hostetter:
Yeah.
Jeff Williams:
I wondered (because) I hadn't heard of it before. Right on.
Melissa Hostetter:
Wait Until 8th is an organization that encourages parents to delay giving their child a smartphone until the end of 8th grade. I can talk a little bit about how I came So I have two children. I have a 17-year-old and a 22-year-old. And dealing with the phone was always kind of an issue. There was always a lot of arguing. We would set restrictions and downtime and so forth. But there was a lot of turmoil around that. I'm also a middle school teacher in Springfield. And I've seen attention spans dramatically decrease over time. It takes a lot more to engage our students. We don't really see students reading as much anymore. And partly they're choosing a screen. They have screens available to them in the classroom too, and they're choosing that over a book, which is not terribly surprising. Also, there's been so much in the news lately, and I just thought, you know, it's time to kind of step forward and try and maybe bring people together so they can feel some support to maybe reconsider giving their child a smartphone so early. And I do want to say we gave our children a smartphone in 5th and 7th. grade, but if I could do it over again, I would have definitely waited.
Jeff Williams:
This is something that I remember early on, the internet, cell phones, I was like, this is so crazy that there's no regulation. There's no, it was like the Wild West. They'd talk about it, like, hey, it's this, you know, this thing, and you can kind of use it whatever way you want. Is that, it's like there's got to be unintended consequences that come along with that. So I know we're late in the game. So it's got to be a hard thing, especially if you're like a younger, a younger adult, let alone a kid. It's just like, it's like your arm or your leg in a way, you know, it's, they're so attached to it. They don't remember a time when there wasn't. So, it feels such a part (of younger people). Anyway, sorry, I didn't mean to blather about that, but yeah, I'm super interested in this.
Melissa Hostetter:
Yeah, and I can turn it over to Ashley to talk about.
Ashley Vincent:
I have two young children and I've just noticed, while raising them how screens have infiltrated basically their childhood. I'm noticing, even in the beginning when I gave my son an iPad and we let him watch YouTube or YouTube Kids, I would notice him having these just out of ordinary like meltdowns. And he would be so irritable. And it just, as a parent, I thought like, this is a different tantrum. This is odd. So we took away the iPad and it's like he detoxed from YouTube.
Jeff Williams:
Really? Sorry to interrupt. How long? I mean, was it pretty quick?
Ashley Vincent:
It took about a week.
Jeff Williams:
About a week, okay. That's pretty short, really. That's not a long time to kind of detox, as you put it.
Ashley Vincent:
Right. And so, you know, he would beg every morning, you know, we would do morning YouTube kids, you know, just like growing up, we watch cartoons. But what I've come to realize, and through my research, (indicates that) some of these shows on YouTube or on these apps, they're actually designed to be highly engaging and addictive.
Jeff Williams:
Right.
Ashley Vincent:
So, my background, I'm a local attorney and I have been following the litigation against platforms such as Facebook, Google. Meta, as you know, owns Facebook and Google owns YouTube. And there were two landmark verdicts that came out recently. And basically, to summarize, is the jury found that the algorithm used by these platforms, the way the notifications are pushed to the kids, it is harmful to children. It's meant to be addictive, and they knew it was addicting. And so, I'm just highly aware of it as I'm raising my children. And I've heard of Wait Until 8th prior to even meeting Melissa. And we decided to take the pledge for my son. We'll eventually do it for my other child. And the purpose of me being here today is to continue to spread awareness and to let people know that we have officially started a chapter in Springfield led by Melissa and then myself. I just started the one in Chatham. And we want to let people know that there are other ways to give your kids a phone, because not all families are the same. So, because I do want to clarify, this is waiting until giving, it's wait until 8 to give your child a smartphone, not a regular quote unquote dumb phone, meaning, you know, you can text if you need to, you can call. So Bark, Gab, Pinwheel, they all make phones specifically designed for kids, a lot cheaper than an iPhone, and they're easy to navigate.
Jeff Williams:
And they still do what the the intended original purpose of a phone was supposed to do, keep you in contact and not, right, okay.
Ashley Vincent:
Yes, exactly. And so, you know, every family is different. Some kids may need a phone earlier than another child due to extracurriculars, or maybe a child comes from a home with a single parent. You know, everyone's different, but there's a solution. And I think that it's important for parents to know that these options are available to them. And even if you've already given your child a phone, it's okay. There are ways to lock it down because we see with the research now all the mental health implications that have happened.
Jeff Williams:
It's kind of astonishing to see where kids are, if the phone dies, if the smart device dies, it sees, I mean, you know, it's like, wow, that kid's really going through something, he's feeling something in his head. She's feeling something, they're feeling something in their head when this device goes. And it seems like it, like you said, it's a purposeful thing to get them to engage to this point where they feel like going outside and playing and things like that are, I guess, less enjoyable, right.
Melissa Hostetter:
I'm trying to think, I've had some moments in my life where I've either had to take a phone from my own child, or I've had to take a device from a child at school. And the reaction is, it's pretty shocking. And I mean, it definitely looks like you're taking something away from some, I hate to use the word addict and describe a child, but that is what it reminds you of.
Jeff Williams:
It's like you're taking away your hand or something.
Melissa Hostetter:
Yes, and they don't fully understand. And it's like you said, if they've had this their whole life, I mean, I did not have a cell phone until I was out of college. I remember very distinctly a childhood without these things. I can imagine that it is difficult. But what I will say as a parent and a teacher who has done that, there is an initial reaction. But then because we are innately designed to interact with other humans, For instance, with my students, if I do have the ability to lock their screens, which I do frequently, and I usually have one or two that'll say, unlock our screen, unlock our screen, and I'll say, no, you can, if this is maybe it's at the end of the class period or something, you can turn and talk to your neighbor, you could play a game. I have games in my room, board games. And they usually are like, okay. And then they're perfectly fine and happy to do that. But it's just, it's sort of, they have to get over that kind of initial reaction.
Jeff Williams:
The initial reaction, right.
Melissa Hostetter:
And parents sort of have to see that through as well. And I think it's a very different situation at home. At school, it's just much more controlled setting. But yeah, it is hard. And I think what I like about Wait Until 8th is that parents go on the website and they take a pledge. just putting in their information in their child's school. And once 10 children in their child's grade in school, well, I'm sorry, 10 parents from the same grade in school make the pledge, then the parents are sent an email of like, these are the other parents that have also made this pledge. It gives the parents the, you know, idea that, hey, we're not the only ones not giving our child a smartphone. And then also like, it kind of gives you that sense of community of like, we can walk this back. And this doesn't need to be, the smartphone doesn't need to be the rite of passage that it's become. Right.
Jeff Williams:
It kind of can lean on each other in a way, maybe the families and stuff.
Melissa Hostetter:
Yeah, I think so.
Jeff Williams:
Yeah. wow, this is, it's super interesting because I don't have kids, but this is, it's this timeline on this planet where, you know, of a certain age, understands what it's like to not have one. Same way, I can't put my, I don't know what it's like to be that kid or to feel like it's something that is part of your, almost your body, you know, you're so attached to it. So, it's, it has got to be like a tough thing to navigate. Have you heard of other you're the like initial chapters, right? As far as I'm in this area. Are there other movements in different parts of the state or country that are similar? I understand that maybe they are not 100 percent related, but.
Melissa Hostetter:
Yes, I looked into it after reading about a parent who started a chapter in Evanston.
Jeff Williams:
Okay.
Melissa Hostetter:
And then there are so many nonprofits dedicated to this movement and to the research around smartphones. We are having a Screen Sanity parent training night on May 5th. Our 2 chapters are hosting, and Screen Sanity is a nonprofit that has designed a training, and it features a video presentation along with discussion about digital wellness. The training doesn't give parents any mandates, but instead it sort of helps parents think about what do they want for their families with regard to screens. It also gives them a chance to talk to other families that obviously have the same concern and again, kind of increasing that community and hoping that will make it a bit easier and also again, just to spread awareness about this issue.
Jeff Williams:
Yeah, so could you like, where is that located then?
Melissa Hostetter:
It will be May 5th at Cherry Hills Church. from 6 to 7.30 P.m. And we will provide childcare as well.
Jeff Williams:
Okay, that sounds good. Another thing about this is you don't want to maybe polarize families or make them feel, I get it, I feel like this too, but at this point we don't like to be dictated to in ways or feel like that. So that's another thing about it, the nuance of it where you're getting people to be like, hey, we're all kind of on the same side. We just want what's best for our kids. but you don't want to, alienate people or push them away. I hope you understand what I'm saying, where you don't, people don't like to feel scolded. And so even if it's something they're on board with, they might push away just because, so that's got to be like a nuanced approach. That's a tightrope of not pushing people away too.
Ashley Vincent:
Yeah. It's not any parent's fault. Right, it's not their fault. We just literally saw those verdicts come down like last week.
Jeff Williams:
Yes.
Ashley Vincent:
So, I'm one of those parents. And I still give my kids screens, right? Like, let's be honest, I do. I moderate it. I'm more mindful now after I've reviewed, you know, research. It's, there's a lot of research posted on waituntilace.org that people can refer to. But I truly do believe, like, Parents do the best that they can with what they know.
Jeff Williams:
Absolutely.
Ashley Vincent:
And we just didn't know. I didn't know.
Jeff Williams:
It's a new frontier in a way, really. You know, I mean, it really is. It hasn't been that long in the history of humankind. This is a transition period that's happening right now. Nobody knows the blueprint. You can't go 20 years in the future to see… it's happening right now.
Melissa Hostetter:
I think it's also we can, you know, emphasize that parents and kids can use screens together. I mean, there isn't a lot of incredible content out there. I mean, I use YouTube all the time to fix appliances or, you know, sometimes I see kids at school use it to learn how to draw something. I mean, there's so many uses. It can just really broaden your horizons. But definitely with younger children, it needs to be under the supervision of a parent. And definitely not, you know, you don't want to just hand your child a phone and boom and leave them to their own devices. You hate to mention this, but there are a lot of very unfortunate stories of stories that are local to hear of children being solicited, receiving explicit photos, seen just incredible violence and no parent would ever want that for their child. And a lot of times also kids don't tell their parents when they see things like that because they don't want to get in trouble and they don't want to have the phone taken away for good. So they keep it to themselves, and they have to sit with that knowledge. And sometimes, I mean, things can get very, very out of hand and have life-changing consequences.
Jeff Williams:
There's times like on my Instagram, I'm like, what am I seeing right now? It used to be that it was kind of your friends and photographs. And all of a sudden it was like, okay, there's reels coming through. I'm like, wait a minute. It's like pushed in a way, purposefully. I'm an adult, you know? When you're kids, it's just like coming in and you're just going from one thing to the next or you're playing a certain game or whatever. And that stuff is almost like, pipeline to you. And we're adults.
Melissa Hostetter:
Yes. And I would say I've noticed that even more just if I'm on Facebook, for instance, like just in the last six months, I'm always like, what is this? And I mean, it makes me not want to be on there at all. It just feels like, oh, this is a bad idea to be on here. But I'm able to step away as an adult. Children have developing brains. They are still figuring things out. And they just really aren't ready to be left with this on their own.
Jeff Williams:
Right, once again, we are in the studio with Melissa Hostetter and Ashley Vincent, and they are in here talking to us about Wait Until 8th and information on how to contact.
Ashley Vincent:
Yeah, so we each have respective Wait Until 8th pages on Facebook. You can search Wait Until 8th hyphen Chatham, Illinois, and Wait Until 8th hyphen Springfield, Illinois.
Jeff Williams:
Okay, right on.
Melissa Hostetter:
And if you want to know more about Screen Sanity, who has has written and created the parent training that we're putting on. You can go to screensanity.org to learn more about them.
Jeff Williams:
On May 5th?
Melissa Hostetter:
Yes. May 5th at Cherry Hills Church from 6 to 7.30 P.m. and child care will be provided.
Jeff Williams:
All right. Well, once again, thank you, Melissa. Thank you, Ashley, for coming by. It's very engaging and pointed topic. So yeah, when you contacted me about it, I was like, yeah, I think this will be a good one. Melissa Hostetter. And Ashley Vincent, both here with Wait Until 8th. Thank you very much.
Melissa Hostetter:
Thank you. Thank you.
Jeff Williams:
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