Steve Mann shares his thoughts about the Lincoln penny no longer being minted.
Mann is with the Central Illinois Numismatic Association and is the Show Chair for the 35th Annual Fall Coin Show November 9, at the Northfield Center in Springfield.
Transcripted through AI with human review for readability.
Steve Michaels:
I'm Steve Michaels with Community Voices, NPR Illinois 91.9 UIS. Stephen Mann is here today. We have a cool connection with Lincoln that's tying together with the coin show that's coming up this weekend, Sunday the 9th. Where is that, Steve?
Steve Mann:
It is at the Northfield Center off of Sangamon Avenue. When you use the exit off I-55, take the first right and go around to the stop sign, and we'll be right there at Northfield Center.
Steve Michaels:
Now, you're not just a fan of coin shows. You have a title that I've never heard before as far as someone who collects or researches coins.
Steve Mann:
Oh, you're talking about being a numismatist. Yes?
Steve Michaels:
Am I?
Steve Mann:
We are. It is also the study of coins, which is called the numismatics.
Steve Michaels:
How do you start in this field? That's never been your full-time job?
Steve Mann:
No, I started as a five-year-old sorting nickels with my mother as we assembled a set of Jefferson nickels with our little blue Whitman board. We would take them out of the change jar and plug the little holes on the board. That's how I got my interest in coins, through my mother.
Steve Michaels:
Why nickels?
Steve Mann:
Mom was a child of the Depression and born in 1929. The nickel was as much money as she could afford to put away as she grew up. And she thought that the Jefferson nickel was the most beautiful coin she had ever seen.
Steve Michaels:
How many did you collect?
Steve Mann:
We filled as many of the holes as we could get out of change.
Steve Michaels:
Was each hole a different year?
Steve Mann:
A different year, different date.
Steve Michaels:
How many different mints are there? Are there three, three or four?
Steve Mann:
In today's world, there is the Philadelphia Mint, the West Point Mint, and the Denver Mint, and the San Francisco Mint, which is not minting circulating coins right now, but does produce the proof coins.
Steve Michaels:
You're still collecting today? How many coins do you think you've acquired? It's not just coins, it's paper money too?
Steve Mann:
Oh yeah, because that's all part of the hobby.
Steve Michaels:
A lot of people might have a jar of pennies. They don't even know what's in the jar. Do you sort them all?
Steve Mann:
I go through and I do have quite a lot of different denominations from cents all the way up through dollars, putting those together.
Steve Michaels:
The penny, they're going to stop minting the penny because it costs too much. It probably costs more to manufacture a penny, then the penny is worth. It's probably been more expensive to make it than it's worth for a long time.
Steve Mann:
Correct. In fact, in 1982, we were still doing the bronze cent and then they went to the zinc with copper plated in 82 as a cost reduction. But in today's world, even doing that, the last I heard, it's about 4 1/2 cents per cent for manufacturers.
Steve Michaels:
I've always wondered, do you really think that we're going to run out of pennies? There's so many out in circulation. You would think even if they're not making anymore.
Steve Mann:
Yeah, there's plenty of them out there, but armored cars and the reserves, since they can no longer order them, it'll get to the point where they won't be delivering them anymore. Some of the armored services have already stopped delivering cents to some of their customers.
Steve Michaels:
Is the take a penny, leave a penny thing going to become a nickel? Take a nickel, leave a nickel?
Steve Mann:
I was just at a store and they were in fact. It was the Kwik Trip up in Beloit and they were rounding already, no longer using cents. They already do the rounding up and down.
Steve Michaels:
The cash register is doing it automatically?
Steve Mann:
Correct.
Steve Michaels:
Now what if you're just paying with a card? They're not rounding that.
Steve Mann:
No, they're not doing that because the card can still do that.
Steve Michaels:
The show is Sunday, Nov. 9, 9 a.m. at Northfield Center, next to Xochimilco, Isn't it connected?
Steve Mann:
Yes, it is. You can come out, buy a coin, and have lunch all at the same time.
Steve Michaels:
I noticed the admission is a dollar, which is nothing.
Steve Mann:
Correct. And if you're 16 or younger, it's free.
Steve Michaels:
It opens to the public at 9 a.m.
Steve Mann:
At 9 a.m.
Steve Michaels:
But you have an early bird admission of $20?
Steve Mann:
This is for the gentlemen who are what they call vest pocket dealers. They come in, they do business with the dealers that have purchased a table at the show. They get a little bit of a head start, but they must pay for that advantage.
Steve Michaels:
I want to get into your connection with Lincoln since it's the penny we've been talking about. But I'm curious first, for someone who's never been to a coin show, if you've never been to a car show, you kind of know what you might see. If you've never been to a record convention, you know what you're going to see because you've owned records, you've seen cool cars. A coin show though, for someone who's never been to one, what would someone like me expect to see that would be really cool.
Steve Mann:
We have 70 dealer tables at this show, and these dealers all specialize in something different. Some dealers just bring silver, some just bring gold, so you can buy bullion there. Some of them bring graded coins which have been done by the professionals, some bring the raw coins which have not been professionally graded. You can get coins anywhere from a half-cent up to a $20 gold piece and of course many different types of paper money. Also some of the guys are bringing the fancy comic book rounds so if you have an interest, you can find something you like.
Steve Michaels:
What is a comic book round?
Steve Mann:
It's a silver round and sometimes they have Batman, or Superman. They will have Spider-Man. Some of them will have dinosaurs on them. And of course, if you're a big Star Wars fan, you can find lots of them with Darth Vader, Yoda, C-3P;, any of those on there.
Steve Michaels:
When you say a round, you're talking about a coin. Was it a coin that's meant to be a Star Wars collectible or did they imprint Darth Vader onto quarter?
Steve Mann:
No, these are very specific. They're usually one ounce silver they're about the size of a silver dollar. They have the characters stamped right into them. They're not a decal put over a current coin. It's literally what that coin is.
Steve Michaels:
It's minted like money in our pocket, correct?.
Steve Mann:
Yeah.
Steve Michaels:
The value just isn't in the weight?
Steve Mann:
No, on some of these, now with silver hovering at $48 an ounce this morning.
Steve Michaels:
And gold's above 4,000 now.
Steve Mann:
Correct. But you'll probably pay $60, $65 for these specialties because you're paying for the specialty aspect of it.
Steve Michaels:
Numisticist.
Steve Mann:
Numismatist.
Steve Michaels:
You'll be at the coin show?
Steve Mann:
I will be there. I am the chairman of this fall show, and I will be at the front table. Several of the Central Illinois Numismatic Association members will be at that table to help you and guide you with and answer any of your questions.
Steve Michaels:
The Fall Coin Show, the 35th annual at the Northfield Center is this Sun., Nov. 9. Are you doing something special for the 35th?
Steve Mann:
There will be what we call CINA bucks, which are given to the children that are 16 and under. They go in, the dealers accept this, the same as cash. So the kids can get something to bring home from the show that's not going to cost them anything.
Steve Michaels:
The penny is not the first currency to be retired. What I think of at first is large bills. At some point, they stopped making $1,000 bills. Maybe there were larger bills. Most of that was transferred between banks. No one walked around with that.
Steve Mann:
The largest note was the $100,000 bill with Woodrow Wilson on it. It was strictly for bank transfers. The largest note to ever come out for the public was the $10,000 note, followed by the $5,000, $1,000, and $500. Those have not been in circulation. The last of those were in 1934.
Steve Michaels:
Have you ever seen one of those?
Steve Mann:
Oh yeah, I have seen them. I personally do not have one. I would love to have one, but no, I do not have one.
Steve Michaels:
At a show like this, would you expect to see someone with a $10,000 or $100,000 bill?
Steve Mann:
At a show like this the chances are not very good.
Steve Michaels:
That's got to be pretty expensive.
Steve Mann:
A $10,000 note could cost you $50,000 or more. If you really want to go into it, the most expensive is the 1933 $20 gold piece. Only one is legal to own. And I think the last time it sold was for close to $10 million.
Steve Michaels:
I have a few bills that my grandparents gave me when I was young. Silver certificates and some 1976 bicentennial money.
Steve Mann:
Two-dollar bills
Steve Michaels:
Two dollar bills. There were special quarters. I know some kids had quarters that were gold and not silver. Maybe they were plated, but they had 1776 on them.
Steve Mann:
Yep, they had them plated.
Steve Michaels:
So those are probably not very valuable. Even the silver certificates, interesting, but not worth a lot.
Steve Mann:
The silver certificates, depending on condition and what series, were to try to sell them, you could expect $1.25 apiece. They're great collectibles.
Steve Michaels:
For a $1 silver certificate?
Steve Mann:
If you get the older ones, and if they're uncirculated, they can become more valuable. But a common one like the series of 1957, most of those will bring a $1.25 apiece.
Steve Michaels:
So back to the currency that's been retired. The penny is not the first coin to go away.
Steve Mann:
No, it's not. In fact, our U.S. cent premiered in 1793. That was the first one. It had a companion because a cent was worth so much money that we had the half-cent. We had that all the way through 1857 when it was retired. Then during the Civil War, the two-cent piece came about, it was the first coin to have the motto, ‘In God We Trust,’ on the instructions of Abraham Lincoln, because he felt it would help bring the country together.
Steve Michaels:
Was Lincoln on the two-cent piece?
Steve Mann:
No, it was a shield, and above it said, ‘In God We Trust.’
Steve Michaels:
I've tried to understand the difference in the purchasing power of a $1 bill and a $2 bill. I would have to equate that today's maybe $10 and $20 bill. You carry $10s, you carry $20s, so carrying a $1 or $2 bill, then going back further, a 1-cent or 2-cent coin puts it in perspective.
Steve Mann:
At one time we had a $1 coin that was made out of gold and it was smaller than a dime. Lots of them have holes drilled through them because it was so much money that the person would put it on a leather string and wear it as a necklace because they were afraid to lose. In fact, I asked my aunt, who was born in the early 1900s, if she ever had a gold coin and she said no. I said, “You could have went to the bank and picked up a $2.50 gold piece.” She said, “My God, no, that was so much money that nobody wanted to put that much money in one coin.” $2.50. Yeah.
Steve Michaels:
The 35th Annual Fall Coin Show is at the Northfield Center here in Springfield Sun., Nov. 9th. Doors open at 9 a.m. Admission only $1. If you’re a collector, you might want to get there early and pay the early entry $20 to see what they've got before someone else snatches it up. You have a family connection to Lincoln, who is on the penny.
Steve Mann:
That is correct. Lincoln has been a very special part of our history, and that is my family first came to Sangamon County in 1831. And my great, great, great grandfather's name was Uriah Mann. and he had a very, very good friend whose first name was Abraham. In 1832, Private Uriah Mann left with Captain Lincoln for the Black Hawk War. To have Lincoln on there is very, very much part of the family. It was Uriah that competed in many wrestling matches with his good friend Abraham and lived out by Riverton, by Camp Butler.
Steve Michaels:
Yyour family, is one of the longest families with a connection to Sangamon County or one of the earliest settlers. What's the connection there?
Steve Mann:
Sangamon County was found in 1821. It’s 200 and we've been here 190 of those of those years. It's incredible. It's been a long time for the family here. Unfortunately, one of the sad things was that one of Uriah's sons, Thomas, was actually captured during the Civil War and spent a year and a half at Andersonville. He only lived a year after the war from the injuries that he occurred at Andersonville.
Steve Michaels:
This book you brought with you, will you have that at the show? What is it? I've never seen this before. This is huge. It's not a coin book either.
Steve Mann:
No, it's the history of Sangamon County.
Steve Michaels:
Do you take that with you everywhere you go?
Steve Mann:
I brought it for you today.
Steve Michaels:
As a non-numismatist, what should I look for in my house to bring to the coin show to have somebody evaluate? Will someone look at coins and say, “Yeah, this is good?”
Steve Mann:
They will look at them very quickly, because they're in business. If you're willing and want to know, if you're trying to sell something, show it to them and they'll give you a price for it right there and tell you what they're willing to pay for it. If you're looking at your house, any silver dollars, silver halves, I will say modern Ike dollars, they're still worth $1. Even though they're really cool and big, they're still worth $1.
Steve Michaels:
Oh well. This is Community Voices. I'm Steve Michaels on NPR, Illinois 919 UIS. Thank you, Steve Mann, for coming in today.
Steve Mann:
Well, thank you for having me.
